OKMULKE, Oklv. – Mvskoke Media was lucky enough to sit down for an interview with acclaimed Cherokee author and activist Rebecca Nagle about her upcoming book, “By the Fire We Carry: The Generations-Long Fight for Justice on Native Land”, which comes out on Sept. 10. The following is an excerpt from Nagle’s interview.
Q: What’s your reaction to the positive press your book has received so far?
NAGLE: You know, it’s exciting, you know, when you write a book you sort of go off, and work on it alone for many years and you just hope that when it comes out that people like it and you know, understand the importance of it.
Q: You’ve done quite a lot of what there is to do. You’ve done podcasting, you’ve done activism and community work, you’ve written this book. You’ve done quite a lot, especially in the Indigenous community, and I’m just wondering… What is it that drives you? What makes you want to do all of this?
NAGLE: Oh, that’s a good question. I mean, I think that the law, because of the way our tribal governments relate to the federal government of the United States, and how complicated it is… I think for Indigenous people, the law has a profound impact on our lives, maybe even more than most average Americans. From how we can access healthcare, education, or other basic services, or how crimes that we may commit or crimes that are committed against us are prosecuted, all of those things are tied up in the law.
I think the law can be really complicated and difficult to understand, and something that a lot of times, people feel like it affects them, but it’s decided really far away from them, so they either can’t affect it, or they don’t understand it. And so, one of the things I did when I was doing the activism and community organizing that has followed since I became a journalist is that I think it’s really important for people to understand the laws that will impact their lives.
That’s one thing I’ve really tried to do with the book. You know, the Murphy and then the McGirt cases. You know, obviously, it affirms the Muscogee Reservation, and then the Five Tribes Reservations here in eastern Oklahoma. It’s a huge historical victory for the Tribe, and I really wanted people to understand where the case came from – the history of the case, how it got to the Supreme Court, what the issues were… And so, I try to write the book in a way where you don’t have to have a law degree, you don’t have to have any kind of background to jump into the book and kind of understand what’s going on.
That’s just something that I’ve always cared about and something that I hope the book can do for our community, so that for people who’ve maybe heard about the McGirt case, but didn’t know where it came from or are confused on what it means, I hope that it can answer some of those questions.
Q: What was your reaction to the McGirt Decision that was handed down in 2020?
NAGLE: It was an emotional day for me, I think, like for a lot of tribal citizens. I interviewed Angel Ellis that day at Mvskoke Media, and one of the things that she said was, as Indigenous people, I think we’re so used to being railroaded, and even though we all went into that Supreme Court case knowing the law was on Muscogee Nation’s side, knowing that if the Supreme Court followed the law, Muscogee Nation would win, but still not feeling like we could expect that or trust that the court would do it.
And so, I think it was an emotional day, and one of the things I write about in the book is that I think it was… you know, I was overwhelmed with joy, but I think it was a joy that also cut really deep, because you know, I know, and I think many other tribal citizens know about all the sacrifices that were made to make this one victory possible.
Q: Do you believe the McGirt decision will provide a sense of security for tribal sovereignty, or do you believe this is just a temporary thing?
NAGLE: You know, where I think the McGirt decision fits in from a sort of long view is… I think it’s not the beginning and it’s not the end, but I think it’s part of the process of our tribes pulling ourselves out of the devastating legacy of allotment. Allotment was really devastating for our tribal citizens, for our families, and for our tribal governments, and it’s something, you know, that we don’t talk about as much. I think we’re just starting to talk about it. We’ve already been doing that work [to rebuild]. Our tribal governments already reformed our constitutions in the 70s and started holding new elections, and I think the recognition of our reservations, you know, is one of those sort of pieces of the puzzle of us rebuilding both what was taken legally and what was taken illegally. Because there was a lot of stuff that still belonged to us in the law after allotment that wasn’t respected, you know. I think that will be the legacy of McGirt is that as we continue to rebuild our sovereignty and our languages and our culture, I think having that recognized reservation is one of those important steps.
Nagle’s book tour will be making two stops in Oklahoma. The first will be in Tulsa on Sept.10 at 7 p.m. at the Philbrook Museum, and is free and open to the public. The other stop will be in Okmulgee on Oct. 1 at the College of the Muscogee Nation.
